Comments on: A Rails-like App in Python with CherryPy http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/2005/06/30/a-rails-like-app-in-python-with-cherrypy/ software development and testing Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:51:01 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: ToddG http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/2005/06/30/a-rails-like-app-in-python-with-cherrypy/comment-page-1/#comment-28 ToddG Wed, 06 Jul 2005 20:35:52 +0000 http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/?p=6#comment-28 Ha, cool. As both Rails and Django seem to have similar growth environments (developed/extracted from a big project) I suppose it's not surprising they'd be similar. I like Chi. Second favorite to my home (first city to your second ;-) Ha, cool. As both Rails and Django seem to have similar growth environments (developed/extracted from a big project) I suppose it’s not surprising they’d be similar.

I like Chi. Second favorite to my home (first city to your second ;-)

]]> By: Jason Huggins http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/2005/06/30/a-rails-like-app-in-python-with-cherrypy/comment-page-1/#comment-27 Jason Huggins Wed, 06 Jul 2005 12:29:01 +0000 http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/?p=6#comment-27 I was at the ChiPy meeting where Adrian Holovaty presented his chicagocrime.org site and the Django framework behind it... (Another cool reason to live in Chicago!)... I look forward to playing with Django when it gets released and seeing how it compares to Rails and CP. Adrian is hard at work getting all the legal 'i's dotted and 't's crossed so it can be open sourced cleanly. One interesting story from the ChiPy meeting: when Adrian first saw Ruby on Rails, he thought, "Hey, that's Django!" I was at the ChiPy meeting where Adrian Holovaty presented his chicagocrime.org site and the Django framework behind it… (Another cool reason to live in Chicago!)… I look forward to playing with Django when it gets released and seeing how it compares to Rails and CP. Adrian is hard at work getting all the legal ‘i’s dotted and ‘t’s crossed so it can be open sourced cleanly. One interesting story from the ChiPy meeting: when Adrian first saw Ruby on Rails, he thought, “Hey, that’s Django!”

]]> By: ToddG http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/2005/06/30/a-rails-like-app-in-python-with-cherrypy/comment-page-1/#comment-26 ToddG Mon, 04 Jul 2005 05:24:51 +0000 http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/?p=6#comment-26 Oh - and Django's site says July - right around or before Rails is 1.0 - that would be pretty great if a good healthy competition arose between them. I think everyone would benefit a lot, whether you prefer python or ruby flavor... Oh – and Django’s site says July – right around or before Rails is 1.0 – that would be pretty great if a good healthy competition arose between them. I think everyone would benefit a lot, whether you prefer python or ruby flavor…

]]> By: ToddG http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/2005/06/30/a-rails-like-app-in-python-with-cherrypy/comment-page-1/#comment-25 ToddG Mon, 04 Jul 2005 05:14:03 +0000 http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/?p=6#comment-25 Vacation? How dare you! ;-) I dunno, in my short experiments with Aquarium I've found it very much like the word it describes -- a container with lots of different varieties of things in it all moving around. I'm sure it's probably pretty powerful if you know it well, but it just doesn't seem as intuitive as Rails or Cherry as to what's going on. It's got the reverse Mason-like templating, creating screens which seems Struts-like, no obvious (included) DB solution, etc. All workable if you've got time to learn well and/or it's your in-house framework - but not a compelling setup for increasing usage. Django sounds quite promising - since it was developed over time and used/refined within projects, and IMHO, most importantly -- developed cohesively, as a whole (i.e. its own MVC, not assembled pieces), it sounds like it has a lot of potential. All my .02 of course. Which is way less valuable than the work all these other people have put into the frameworks. Vacation? How dare you! ;-)

I dunno, in my short experiments with Aquarium I’ve found it very much like the word it describes — a container with lots of different varieties of things in it all moving around. I’m sure it’s probably pretty powerful if you know it well, but it just doesn’t seem as intuitive as Rails or Cherry as to what’s going on. It’s got the reverse Mason-like templating, creating screens which seems Struts-like, no obvious (included) DB solution, etc. All workable if you’ve got time to learn well and/or it’s your in-house framework – but not a compelling setup for increasing usage.

Django sounds quite promising – since it was developed over time and used/refined within projects, and IMHO, most importantly — developed cohesively, as a whole (i.e. its own MVC, not assembled pieces), it sounds like it has a lot of potential. All my .02 of course. Which is way less valuable than the work all these other people have put into the frameworks.

]]> By: Administrator http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/2005/06/30/a-rails-like-app-in-python-with-cherrypy/comment-page-1/#comment-24 Administrator Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:10:07 +0000 http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/?p=6#comment-24 Hey folks, I'm on vacation in Fisher's Island, NY for the next week. My network connection is over pretty limited... will check in and respond to comments when I can... Interesting thread, eh? -Jason Hey folks, I’m on vacation in Fisher’s Island, NY for the next week. My network connection is over pretty limited… will check in and respond to comments when I can… Interesting thread, eh? -Jason

]]> By: Kevin Dangoor http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/2005/06/30/a-rails-like-app-in-python-with-cherrypy/comment-page-1/#comment-23 Kevin Dangoor Sat, 02 Jul 2005 18:23:50 +0000 http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/?p=6#comment-23 I think you've covered the bases and came to pretty much the same conclusions I have regarding Rails and the CherryPy/SQLObject/Cheetah combo. Rails uses embedded Ruby code in the pages as the template system, and I actually prefer Cheetah to that setup. However, one thing that Rails provides that is not mentioned here is a bit more end-to-end (Browser-to-Server) support since Rails makes an assumption about the template system. CherryPy makes no such assumption and therefore provides no templating-specific features. (The Rails ajax stuff is what comes to mind here.) Also, regarding Oracle support for SQLObject: I've touched both the sqlite and firebird connectors for SQLObject, and it's pretty straightforward. If you know Oracle pretty well, you could probably write the code from scratch in a very short time. I think you’ve covered the bases and came to pretty much the same conclusions I have regarding Rails and the CherryPy/SQLObject/Cheetah combo. Rails uses embedded Ruby code in the pages as the template system, and I actually prefer Cheetah to that setup. However, one thing that Rails provides that is not mentioned here is a bit more end-to-end (Browser-to-Server) support since Rails makes an assumption about the template system. CherryPy makes no such assumption and therefore provides no templating-specific features. (The Rails ajax stuff is what comes to mind here.)

Also, regarding Oracle support for SQLObject: I’ve touched both the sqlite and firebird connectors for SQLObject, and it’s pretty straightforward. If you know Oracle pretty well, you could probably write the code from scratch in a very short time.

]]> By: Mamading Ceesay http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/2005/06/30/a-rails-like-app-in-python-with-cherrypy/comment-page-1/#comment-22 Mamading Ceesay Fri, 01 Jul 2005 20:04:52 +0000 http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/?p=6#comment-22 One last thing, keep an eye out for http://django.sourceforge.net/ from the developer of http://www.chicagocrime.org Currently the best source of information about it is the Python wiki http://wiki.python.org/moin/Django One last thing, keep an eye out for http://django.sourceforge.net/ from the developer of http://www.chicagocrime.org Currently the best source of information about it is the Python wiki http://wiki.python.org/moin/Django

]]> By: Mamading Ceesay http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/2005/06/30/a-rails-like-app-in-python-with-cherrypy/comment-page-1/#comment-21 Mamading Ceesay Fri, 01 Jul 2005 20:01:05 +0000 http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/?p=6#comment-21 > > I think lots of those utils are a big part of what > makes Rails attractive to people and speeds up > development. A common Cherry (and others) > counter-argument though is repeated claims for a > barebones framework: thin, light, etc. I tend to > imagine everyone is writing these util methods > themselves over and over though… but writing your > own version of everything does seem to be the > Python-way > (yes that’s both a dig and a compliment). > You may be interested to know that Remi the CherryPy project leader is hard at work on CherryObject which will provide rich but optional functionality for those using CherryPy. >
> I think lots of those utils are a big part of what
> makes Rails attractive to people and speeds up
> development. A common Cherry (and others)
> counter-argument though is repeated claims for a
> barebones framework: thin, light, etc. I tend to
> imagine everyone is writing these util methods
> themselves over and over though… but writing your
> own version of everything does seem to be the
> Python-way
> (yes that’s both a dig and a compliment).
>

You may be interested to know that Remi the CherryPy project leader is hard at work on CherryObject which will provide rich but optional functionality for those using CherryPy.

]]> By: Mamading Ceesay http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/2005/06/30/a-rails-like-app-in-python-with-cherrypy/comment-page-1/#comment-20 Mamading Ceesay Fri, 01 Jul 2005 19:54:18 +0000 http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/?p=6#comment-20 > > However, when I look at things like Tiddlywiki.com, I > start to think the server has no business generating > forms… The server should only provide a data structure > (XML, YAML, JSON, etc.), and let JavaScript in the > browser handle building the user interface around that > data. > Interesting. What are your thoughts on Trimpath's JavaScript Templates? http://www.trimpath.com/project/wiki/JavaScriptTemplates >
> However, when I look at things like Tiddlywiki.com, I
> start to think the server has no business generating
> forms… The server should only provide a data structure > (XML, YAML, JSON, etc.), and let JavaScript in the
> browser handle building the user interface around that > data.
>

Interesting. What are your thoughts on Trimpath’s JavaScript Templates? http://www.trimpath.com/project/wiki/JavaScriptTemplates

]]> By: Mamading Ceesay http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/2005/06/30/a-rails-like-app-in-python-with-cherrypy/comment-page-1/#comment-19 Mamading Ceesay Fri, 01 Jul 2005 19:37:57 +0000 http://www.jrandolph.com/blog/?p=6#comment-19 Reading your blog post reminded me once again that Aquarium seems to be the best-kept secret in Python web development. Taking the Rails features you mentioned point by point: Directory Structure - Aquarium has had that for years due to its FreeEnergy philosophy. Scaffolding - There was a companion app for Aquarium called Piranha which provided scaffolding but it hasn't been maintained for years. SQL Table Introspection to Define Model - Aquarium doesn't have that, but it does have a DatabaseAssistant helper class that can be used by a developer's "table classes. I suggested integrating SQLObject with Aquarium to Shannon Behrens the Aquarium Project Leader quite some time ago and had previously mentioned it in wikis and blog comments before then. SQLObject is the most obvious analog to Active Record, while Aquarium with its Python controllers and Cheetah templates is clearly analgous to Action Pack. No “XML sit-ups” - Aquarium is XML-free. Its config file is basically a Python file declaring various properties. Easy Install - Aquarium doesn't bundle Cheetah even though it is dependent on it. Any required database drivers have to be installed separately as well. Live Auto-Reload - Have to confess I don't know where Aquarium stands on this front. I've given Shannon some pointers in terms of creating screencasts of the in-house tutorials on Aquarium he gives. And his employer is currently looking to hire another Python web guy to work alongside him in California. Reading your blog post reminded me once again that Aquarium seems to be the best-kept secret in Python web development. Taking the Rails features you mentioned point by point:

Directory Structure – Aquarium has had that for years due to its FreeEnergy philosophy.

Scaffolding – There was a companion app for Aquarium called Piranha which provided scaffolding but it hasn’t been maintained for years.

SQL Table Introspection to Define Model – Aquarium doesn’t have that, but it does have a DatabaseAssistant helper class that can be used by a developer’s “table classes. I suggested integrating SQLObject with Aquarium to Shannon Behrens the Aquarium Project Leader quite some time ago and had previously mentioned it in wikis and blog comments before then. SQLObject is the most obvious analog to Active Record, while Aquarium with its Python controllers and Cheetah templates is clearly analgous to Action Pack.

No “XML sit-ups” – Aquarium is XML-free. Its config file is basically a Python file declaring various properties.

Easy Install – Aquarium doesn’t bundle Cheetah even though it is dependent on it. Any required database drivers have to be installed separately as well.

Live Auto-Reload – Have to confess I don’t know where Aquarium stands on this front.

I’ve given Shannon some pointers in terms of creating screencasts of the in-house tutorials on Aquarium he gives. And his employer is currently looking to hire another Python web guy to work alongside him in California.

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